Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | See parent post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 10, 2014 8:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bonus Discs

And I think we, and the DEAD, both benefit as a result? IE, the "lets share it" and we end up with legions of heads and lets see, how many zep fanatics?

;)

Well, I dunno, but I keep coming back to this model worked, and I don't know that the other, penny pinching one, worked better...did they make more money? Doubt it. Did they make "better" money (this is what Jerry et al. were on about during RRecords...doing it "right").

So, like MONTE I do believe the DEAD stood for an alternative biz model, and that it worked...but, I have no problem, like you, with paying now, or letting Bobby change his mind.

But I do think it is a poor biz model choice.

That's my only point; it might be the best now, but overall, I think the model that set them apart was outstanding...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: N Hoey Date: Apr 10, 2014 8:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bonus Discs

Wait, first, are you saying there are relatively few Zep fanatics?

There are many many many legions upon legions of Led Zeppelin fanatics. All around the entire planet. If they don't outnumber Deadheads by say, oh, 10 to 1, I'd be very surprised. But as I said, their loyalty isn't anywhere near as well served as Deadhead loyalty has been.
Check out how many Led Zeppelin uploads there have been at Dimeadozen over the past ten years. And with far fewer shows ever performed.

Respectfully, the "cultivate the fan base" model worked well for many years, but come on, we're talking about a pop CULTural icon and those just don't generate cash forever. Culture moves on. The current state of RHINO/GD releases and marketing is a miracle. They are making releasing multiple 20+ year old (really more like 40) music still work economically. In this current "music should be free" environment that is truly exceptional.

The music set them apart and the model complemented it. Bands that didn't "jam" their material as a matter of course wouldn't have benefited from the GD model.

You can't say "it's a poor model" and then acknowledge that it's "the best now". That's trying to have it both ways. Remember, they have been doing this for a while now. This didn't just commence recently. We are where we are as part of a long continuum. They keep tweaking it to keep it viable. If you don't like it, suggest what would work better and prove it. They've already been running the experiment. Be very glad they have stuck with it, for many such bands, even if they would have ever tried it, they would have certainly dropped it by now, being at the point of selling 14,000 units per release. Jimmy Page, Mick Jagger, Eric Clapton, David Gilmour, etc, they laugh at such numbers. They couldn't be bothered to even take a moment to approve a release totally prepared by others that would put a few bucks in their accounts.

Most complaints I see regarding the releases are either petty or too subjective to matter.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 10, 2014 11:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bonus Discs

Rhino hears you....

http://www.rhino.com/article/led-zeppelin-first-three-albums-newly-remastered

http://www.jambase.com/Articles/121321/Led-Zeppelin-Shares-Taste-Of-Unreleased-1969-Show

Here's the tracklist for the companion disc featuring tunes from the 1969 concert including a 15-minute version of "Dazed And Confused":

Companion Audio Disc
Live At The Olympia - Paris, France
October 10, 1969

1. "Good Times Bad Times/Communication Breakdown"
2. "I Can't Quit You Baby"
3. "Heartbreaker"
4. "Dazed And Confused"
5. "White Summer/Black Mountain Side"
6. "You Shook Me"
7. "Moby Dick"
8. "How Many More Times"

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2014-04-11 06:32:10

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 11, 2014 6:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bonus Discs

Thanks--seriously, I had NO idea about zep fans greatly outnumbering "us"...do they buy all the crap all the time? I suppose that's your pt about "laughing" at the numbers...

I guess I am not absolutely convinced, but it's probably because I don't get out much, and certainly "see" all DEAD, all the time...

And yeah, I do actually think we can say "oh yea, it worked!" in an abstract sense, and also note, "oh, crap, it failed" (it did both, on different levels, right?).

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: N Hoey Date: Apr 11, 2014 9:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bonus Discs

Led Zeppelin album sales aren't exact, but estimates range from 200-300 million worldwide. Grateful Dead are 10 times less, at about 20-30 million worldwide. The Zep collector world is far more spread around the world and very dedicated, they just have much much less attention from the band.

When it comes to doing business and the bottom line, which is how commercial activity ultimately gets judged by those investing in making it happen, abstract or moral victories don't mean shit.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 12, 2014 6:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bonus Discs

Yup; but, the moral victory I was talking about was the notion that "oh, hey we care about our fans, and we don't want to rip them off" and the synergy that built between us and the band, blah, blah, blah,...and, that's why whatever the numbers, WE know we're "better" than any legion of zep fanatics, right?

I have always believed that...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: N Hoey Date: Apr 12, 2014 10:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bonus Discs

Ok Mr. Tell, how are GD fans being ripped off by limited editions and bonus discs? Purchasing is completely at your own discretion.

Don't you get that caring about the fans etc isn't a promise to lose money just to satisfy any level of fan expectation?

And what kind of crazy notion is behind "WE know we're "better" than any legion of zep fanatics"? They love their band, you love yours. You're very fortunate your band has continued to try and find ways to create and deliver quality product. Zep fans are not nearly as lucky in that respect.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 13, 2014 6:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Bonus Discs

Oh, hey--we're cool...you won this round, hands down. I don't have any prob w the bonus disks, and loved your "realpolitik" ref.

Also, yup, I understand that losing money was a GREAT gesture for us, but never wanted them to go belly up for it.

And, absolutely--I am "fortunate" and that is the simple, crazy notion that our band treated us better than the zep fan's band...also, those latter fans really were odd balls, at least the ones I met.